I Guess You Do Lose Your Rights At the School House Door.
According to Oklahoma Public Radio, a public school in Pocola, OK is debating an issue that challenges the First Amendment.
School official Frank Makinson has sued the school district to stop Christian-based prayers at mandatory school meetings.
His attorney has pointed out the fact that the leader of several of the prayers, the high school principal, is a Baptist minister.
Also, according to Makinson’s attorney, the prayers were lengthy and referred to Jesus several times.
Makinson claims to have been ridiculed for objecting to the prayer sessions. He is not seeking monetary damages.
This is one of the best reasons why Oklahoma, and several of our Bible belt neighbors, are in bad shape.
There is nothing inherently wrong with religion, but why do Christians, and increasingly Muslims, feel they need to convert the world and make it as Christian or Islam as they can?
You never hear about Buddhists or Hindus trying to force their beliefs on others.
Oklahoma Sucks fully supports Mr. Makinson is his lawsuit. This is a clear cut case.
A public school is government property. School officials (government employees) cannot force employees or co-workers to take part in a religious event, especially one in government property, that should not be happening in the first place.
Granted, Makinson was only ridiculed from what the story suggests, but that is religious discrimination and harassment.
Put the shoe on the other foot for a second.
Let’s pretend that Mr. Makinson was Muslim and the rest of the workers were apathetic about religion. Let’s assume Makinson takes part in a religious ritual everyday that grabs the attention of other faculty and they make fun of him for it.
Would that be unfair?
Yes! He has every right to practice his religious beliefs when they don’t interfere with other’s, just as much as the faculty at the meetings had every right to take part in individual acts of faith.
They cannot force another co-worker to take part in their expression or punish the colleague for not participating.
I hope this is the last time I hear a story like this, but I know this is Oklahoma and for some reason, Christians just can’t set back and be content in their own faith if they know the person sitting next to them isn’t.
April 18th, 2006 at 7:10 pm
Aye, he shouldn’t be ridiculed. But it doesn’t sound like he is being forced to participate. He should have just sat out of the prayers if he didn’t want to be involved.
April 20th, 2006 at 2:30 am
That’s what he did. Then he was ridiculed. That’s why he sued the school. It doesn’t help the school any that they’re not supposed to do that.
It’s OK if the teachers want to participate in prayer with each other. It’s even OK if the school officials get involved.
But when it’s part of a mandatory event, like a faculty meeting on school property, that’s a violation of what this country claims to hold dear: the First Amendment.
Would be OK for these teachers to lead their students in prayer in class? No, it would not. There’s a place and a time for children and adults to learn religious ideologies. That place is in church.
The separation of church and state does not just protect religious minorities from the religious majorities, it also protects the religious majority from the government.
Do you belive that if the United States were a Catholic theocracy, everyone would be better off?
Do you believe the Catholic Church would be better off? Is it immune from corruption?
How would the church fair when the government was overthrown?
Do you think it would be very popular with the masses? I think that would spell the end of the church in America.
April 20th, 2006 at 9:49 am
Perhaps, but how was he ridiculed? Maybe he should just thicken his skin. Not to normalize ridicule, I just get sick of living in such a litigious society. Can’t we solve our problems alternatively?
“There’s a place and a time for children and adults to learn religious ideologies. That place is in church.”
I disagree. First, let me state that the primary place to learn religious ideologies is the home. Second, I think that learning and understanding religious ideologies is necessary in the general education of our youth (and, for that matter, adults). I was one of two Catholic kids at my high school - I was ridiculed all the time. But it only served to benefit me.
History knows the answer to some of your closing questions. Besides, even I would be afraid if the Church in America had that much power,
April 20th, 2006 at 6:22 pm
I agree with Nick…there needs too be a separation of Church and State. Religion is an optional practice in this country and shouldn’t be employed in any school. I personally would not care if my child were exposed to Muslim prayers…might broaden his religious views…but everyone should have the choice to not listen. This High School principal is paying for his ignorance. If you want to pray…pray away from me.
April 20th, 2006 at 7:17 pm
I really don’t think it’s an issue of separation of church and state. If the official was fired because he didn’t pray, it would be one thing, but all we know with this post is that a vague “school official” was in attendance at a vague “school meeting” and “Jesus” was mentioned. Boo-hoo.
April 20th, 2006 at 10:49 pm
There was no vague school official. The principal frequently led faculty in prayer and he was a Baptist minister. The story makes that clear.
The school meetings are “vague” because there were several of them. They were listed in the story as being mandatory.
And in response to the fact he was not fired: I would say that makes this an issue of religious discrimination or harassment.
The principal really should not have led the faculty in prayer at a public school, but just b/c Makinson was not fired does not mean that it does not violate his rights.
Also, in response to the “excess litigiousness” comment, I would like to remind you that Makinson is seeking no damages in his suit, just an ending to the prayers at mandatory staff meetings. I don’t see any selfish motivation there.
Thanks for the comment David and I agree that religious beliefs should be primarily taught in the home.
And I do believe that young children benefit from learning relgious principles early on.
I like to think of myself as a good example of this.
I was brought up in a very conservative family and community.
We attended church frequently and I was taught the teachings of Jesus and what is considered by my church to be good and bad.
As I got older, the more religious teachings about salvation, heaven and hell and creation lost favor with me.
But the morality I learned stuck with me, even though I kind of disregarded the religion.
You might think that b/c of my more leftist leanings, I have no morals, but I do in fact have better morals than many of my devout Christian friends.
I very seldom drink, I’m still a virgin, I don’t do drugs, I give money to charity, I obey laws, I don’t believe in stealing (that includes music), and I don’t like excessive profanity.
I belive all these are good qualities I want my children to have, so I’m considering going back to church when my children are born so they can learn these principles like I did.
That doesn’t mean I want them taught in the public schools with Christian overtones.